Pupils:
John (J),
Patricia (P),
Alexis (A),
David (D),
Margie (M),
Viki(V),
Howard (H),
Colin (C),
Ray (R)
Scribe:
Gavin (G)
Apologies:
Madge (M)
Homework
After a stimulating meeting today we have some moral dilemmas to consider. At the next meeting we will be doing a 'For' and 'Against' on compulsory voting: Viki and Margie for, Howard and Gavin against.
John Stuart Mill is a useful source; he was very concerned with who could vote; he wanted the voter franchise to be larger and less tied to wealth. He suggested extra votes for the educated. Does requiring people to vote also require encouragement for voters to be given education in the democratic process and pertinent issues—as Amartya Sen proposed and introduced in Kerala? We need to explore how different types of voting systems could work under the constraint of compulsory voting. Is compulsory voting successful where it's already used?
Clearly for compulsory voting to succeed and to improve the working of democracy, people need to have some idea of what they are voting for and its implications. John Stuart Mill wrote extensively on this and it might be worth exploring his views as preparation for the session.
We're very much looking forward to Tuesday's discussion, when identification of the pros and cons of compulsory voting will naturally lead to exploration of other, maybe complementary, ways of improving our democratic system, as well as digging deep to establish the differences between, or overlap of, rights, responsibilities and duties etc…
Viki and Margie v. Howard and Gavin…what a clash of titans this promises to be!
Plenary Session
Introduction(S)
Is it necessarily the case that it's better for democracy when more people vote?
Discussion
The Case for Compulsory Voting(V)
Quote attributed to Edmund Burke: 'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.'
Nearly 90 million voters did not vote in the US election, whereas Trump received 77 million votes.
Compulsory voting increases turnout.
Without compulsory voting, a large section of society is not represented.
There are significant differences by age and race when segmenting those who did not vote.
Compulsory voting can be a counterbalance to extremism, because candidates and parties will tend to choose centrist policies.
Without compulsory voting, financial institutions obtain disproportionate power.
We already have rights and responsibilities. To add one more doesn't seem too much to ask.
Enabling people to vote will be easier as technology becomes more pervasive.
A Case against Compulsory Voting(G)
Should people vote in ignorance? Should a parish councillor abstain from a vote because she hadn't researched the topic enough?
In the 2023 parish council elections, we voted in ignorance: the top three councillors would all resign within a year, as a consequence of their own decisions. And because we voted in the two who got the most votes, the highly effective clerk resigned.
Voting in ignorance distorts the outcome, and will become more frequent if voting is made compulsory.
When voters don't care about the result, it can become even more random.
Confronted with a form containing questions they care nothing about—such as a market research survey—many people make stupid mini-decisions which they would never make if they knew the outcome would affect them.
Some make pretty geometric patterns across a grid of squares which represent answers ranging from 'Strongly agree' to 'Strongly disagree'. Others put all their answers down the middle, because no-one is going to give you a hard time if you take the middle path, are they?
In elections, candidates towards the top of the form are more likely to be voted for, when the voter couldn’t care less, than the candidate at the bottom of the form.
Some people believe their duty to vote is more important than their duty to know anything about the candidates.
Some would say that governments already have too much control. It is governments which tell us when we are to vote and what issue we are to vote on.
By voting, we are effectively giving our consent to be governed, and enabling a bad government to feel good about itself. What should happen if you don’t like any of the candidates and parties on offer?
We should preserve our freedom not to vote.
Some religions (such as Christadelphians) object to voting.
Setting up the infrastructure to enforce voting will be costly.
Fining the poor for not voting would be a regressive form of taxation.
Some people might sell their votes.
Some people in the voting booth could consult an AI tool on their phone ChatGPT to advise them which way to vote. This phenomenon will increase immensely if voting is made mandatory.
The Case Against the Case Against Compulsory Voting(M)
Duty without knowledge is worse than useless.
We have to address the ignorance of voters.
e.g. through education in school.
The AI problem is a real one.
Fines in countries already with compulsory voting should be small.
People have been imprisoned in Australia as a consequence of not voting and not paying the fine.(V)
There should be a 'None of the above' box for every every compulsory vote.
Further thoughts Against Compulsory Voting(H)
After 25 years' experience of the Citizens Advice Bureau, I am aware there is a hard-to-reach underclass of nihilistic people who won't vote.
They are fatalistic and believe that whatever they do won't make any difference to the outcome.
Opening up the discussion
The state of politics today
Parties are communications-obsessed. Focus groups lead to random policies. The electorate is becoming disillusioned.(S)
We apply sticking plasters to each problem.(V)
Voting and the Underclass
A lot of nihilistic people do vote.(D)
The people who have no faith in the system are a very small group.(V)
Do we vote out of self-interest or for the Common Good?(G)
Are the interests of non-voters represented by those who those who vote for their view of the Common Good?
The current first-past-the-post system would not work in giving power to the nihilistic.(A)
For those who don't like the options
We need a box on the voting slip which says: "I don’t believe the system represents my views".(C)
People need to be able to exercise a right to dissent.
How compulsory should voting be?
Perhaps we could age-defined compulsory voting: 0-17 forbidden; 18-30 compulsory (to develop the habit); 31+ optional.
If we instigate compulsory voting, it should create a virtuous circle of people talking about government.(S)
Coping with ignorance
It would take time to diminish voter ignorance.(M)
The desire to vote in other countries
Less than half the population determine the government.(C)
A friend in Australia can’t imagine not voting.(P)
There was a very poor turnout for elections in Scotland and Wales.(D)
Most South Americans feel obliged to vote, perhaps as a result of Spanish and Portuguese introductions of the idea of compulsory voting many years ago.(M)
What about local government elections?
Local elections have become politicised. Voters may like the candidate but hate their party.(V)
In local government, groups of independents are replacing national parties.(S)
Local residents' associations seem to be inhabited by closet conservatives too embarrassed to be known as conservative.(G)
Madison believed that the formation of factions was inevitable due to differing opinions.(S)
How to implement compulsory voting
We could implement automatic voter registration, because 20% of adults in the UK are not registered and therefore cannot vote. Whenever people interact with government to register for anything, they should be registered to vote.(S)
Compulsory ID cards would help.(R)
Can you guarantee that the Russians won’t hack into our government systems?(C)
There will always be the temptation to bribe people.(C)
Proportional Representation too?
We should utilise the principle of discontinuous incrementalism: implement proportional representation first, then introduce compulsory voting.(C)
Some countries have successfully introduced the two at the same time.(V)
No existing government will introduce PR because it is always against its interests.(L)
In December of last year, the vote on a Liberal Democrat 10-minute-rule bill calling for a PR system for UK parliamentary elections and local elections in England was passed by 137 votes to 135.
This vote arose because of the rise of Reform.(S)
The top issue for Reform voters is immigration, but for Labour voters only one in eight see this as their top issue. Boat people are a tiny statistic, but Reform makes it the top issue.(C)
Incentives or Threats
If you don’t vote in Brazil, you can’t take professional exams, or obtain a passport. There is a discount card for people who do vote.
Perhaps you should earn an extra vote every time you vote.(C)
Perhaps you should get less of a vote as you get older because you have less of a stake in the future.(M)
Intermission: Mill(S)
JSM had the desire to harness the talents of the entire nation towards the common good. To avoid the tyranny of the majority.
He believed in epistocracy: more knowledge you have, the more influence you have.
But the illiterate should have a say. Does democracy liberate the car mechanic?
Are you voting for the common good? Bentham said: just vote for your self-interest. So the result of the election is the sum of the self-interests.
The danger with plural voting is that those with more knowledge may not have more wisdom. We don't want the Bullingdon Club in government.
Another danger is that people focus on their wants not on their needs.
The 1961 film Judgement at Nuremberg is still on BBC but not for long. It's a good demonstration of utilitarian versus virtue ethics.(S)
Back to Compulsory Voting
Armchair liberals were saying uncontrolled immigration is fine. The residents of Kent weren’t listened to.(L)
I didn’t ask to be born in England. I didn’t ask for all these rights: to be educated, and to have access to NHS services etc.(J)
Cecil Rhodes said: "You are an Englishman, and have subsequently drawn the greatest prize in the lottery of life."(C)
Would people have a greater sense of national pride if there were compulsory voting?(S)
The head of a family of 15 in Bradford would tell all the adults in his household which way to vote.(C)
In the past, many wives voted as their husband told them.(A)
Those who experienced the Second World War were generally against Brexit.(L)
The post-war thawing of relations between France and Germany was the start of the unification of Europe.(A)
Fear of the wars we could be descending into is less of a concern for young people these days.(S)
Other Referendums
The nature of the Brexit vote—stay in or leave—was less messy than an issue such as whether to keep the NHS.(V)
People are now less likely to vote for capital punishment.(D)
No. In a recent survey, 60-70% of people said they would vote for it.(C)
Some youngsters behave as if knife crime it doesn’t really matter.(V)
The Verdict
A mandatory vote was taken at the end of the session at the request of prosecuting counsel. The verdict was about nine in favour with two against. (But most of the votes were disqualified due to age or ignorance.)
